PvP Honor Dishonor info

[Ghryphen]

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html

[Frils]

That just sounds freaking awesome

[Jadal]

plz explain why that is awesome? im so very confused

[Jadal]

good thread about this:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=1878919&P=1

edit:

lol their server crapped out at 4:40 am. must have been the mass of people reading the forums. i'll check back to see if the link worked

[Cptmorgan]

Very nice. For the non damage dealing classes you just need to group with others, you all get the same honor, plus additional honor, though it dosnt say how much.

We all need to make as many alts as possible, this way we can be in a higher percentage of the population and possibly higher ranks...at least thats how i read it.

[xXBlackWolfXx]

I think the system sucks without granting dishonor to grey player kills. Why even HAVE a dishonor system if it doesn't apply to player kills?

[destinysend]

yea well if it did apply to players, which it prob will in the future, lvl 60's wouldnt be killing the lvl 40ish people who are mobbing them cause they dont want a dishonorable kill.

[Jadal]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that argument keeps coming up about lowbies harassing high lvls

this is 2005 not 1905. I cant believe blizzard would not be able to program in an "aggressor" switch. You hit first then you are open to attack. Seems pretty simple. Even if someone found a loophole down the line it could be fixed and until it was gankers would get a taste of their own medecine.

the only problem I see is it probably isnt an easy code, but heaven forbid we attempt to hold their feet to the fire and make em work.

The proposed system is obviously an attempt to stifle the whiners about lack of end game content. The whine is true but the game mechanics are not ready for the proposed honor system.

Lastly, what the fuck are they thinking giving out even better gear than epic???? That completely flies in the face of logic to say nothing of the fact that it will leave most players out in the cold who pay the same money but are unable to enjoy the same content.

MARK MY WORDS this is the nail in the coffin for Mal'Ganis.

[Splidz]

that argument keeps coming up about lowbies harassing high lvls

this is 2005 not 1905. I cant believe blizzard would not be able to program in an "aggressor" switch. You hit first then you are open to attack. Seems pretty simple. Even if someone found a loophole down the line it could be fixed and until it was gankers would get a taste of their own medecine.

the only problem I see is it probably isnt an easy code, but heaven forbid we attempt to hold their feet to the fire and make em work.


Although I think there are problems with the honour/dishonour system too, I can understand why they are not preventing you from attacking lower levels. Yes, they could put in some kind of switch like that. But it puts you at a real disadvantage when it comes to a fight. I'll give you a concrete example. I landed in Ratchet the other night, and friggin Lansip (level 42, I'm level 40) was there and started following me. He's got a level 10 druid along with him. They are both blue to me - I can't do anything to them - because it's a Horde territory. So this situation kind of emulates what it would be like with no ability to attack, because I can't in this situation.

Well, sure enough, Lansip attacks me when the moment is right for him. As soon as I'm in the thick of it with him, the level 10 gets in on it too. Throws in some roots, some other spells, etc. I die. I may have died anyway, but there's no doubt that even though he was just a level 10, the druid did help kill me.

So this is what happens if you can't attack lower level players. They will tag along with higher level players. When the group runs into a higher level enemy, the higher level players will start the fight. Then the lower levels will wait until they think it's safe to do so - probably when the enemy is at 1/2 health, or worse - and they will all jump in.

Not letting you attack lower level players first would take away the guilt by association factor - if you're low level, and I see you with a high level, you're a threat to me. If a fight is brewing, I want to have the ability to remove you from the fight as fast as possible so I can concentrate on the larger threats. This is especially true for me as a spellcaster, because even a small amount of damage can interrupt my spells. So a low-level character can interrupt my spellcasting by meleeing me, which hurts me big-time, even though it doesn't cause much damage.

[SilverTalon]

I still fail to see why a flag that is toggled the moment any sort of action is taken by the player is so difficult given that we already have "in combat" flags and "PvP enabled" flags. Hell, they don't even need to "key" the dishonor flag to that particular player just make it if a grey player does ANYTHING to a player in combat (a condition that is already tracked), be it melee attack or spell or even a heal of the friendly...the enemies of that player involved in combat within X radius (doesn't need to be big...30 yards is probably enough) get a "No Dishonor" flag switched that's active for 1-2 minutes (or more, depending on what is observed is the normal combat time) and your PvP shield turns red as a visual indicator. During this time you can kill any lowbies you want and not accure dishonor, but once it switches off you will get dishonor. Chances are in a true fight where they're hitting you back, you'd have to have really poor timing to kill them when your flag is off...if they're trying to get away, then yeah...you're a dishonorable SOB still.

In your example Splid, as soon as that druid cast root on you, you'd have been able to kill him freely. Sure, you have to wait for him to be aggressive, but the moment he does *anything* (which again, Blizzard has mechanisms to track...since mobs respond to heals and other non-combat aggro) he's fair game and so is any other lowbie around. Of course you can hit him anyway, you just run the risk of dishonor if you initiate it (which is how it should work). Also, if you initiate the attack on a lowbie, you get a block on being able to get the "no dishonor" flag for 15 minutes that resets with each new attack on a lowbie. So if I just randomly take down a 10, it doesn't matter if 30 level 10s attack me 5 minutes later...I accure dishonor for killing any because I previously committed dishonorable actions. Don't attack lowbies, no problems. AoE spells/effects should be exempted from that rule (but not going the other direction...i.e. - you standing next to a valid opponent that I'm fighting will not trip my flag, but you using an AoE that catches me does).

Of course, Blizzard only makes eight figures a month on this game...why should we expect them to actually have people who can come up with solutions?

[Ghryphen]

Well they are fixing the player level reveal that Addons have to high levels will once again have skull and crossbones. I think that the skull and crossbones should work in the opposite direction as well, so some level 40 guy ready to gank doesn't know if he is attacking a level 55+ person or a level 25- person.

[Zanik]

(glares into the very distant future)

Wow, I think I can see the "Honor System" on the fading horizon.....

Don't get your hopes up on seeing this anytime soon. With Blizzard and WoW, it's all about show-n-tell. The problem is they haven't quite gotten the "show" part down.

Zanik

[Splidz]

In your example Splid, as soon as that druid cast root on you, you'd have been able to kill him freely. Sure, you have to wait for him to be aggressive, but the moment he does *anything* (which again, Blizzard has mechanisms to track...since mobs respond to heals and other non-combat aggro) he's fair game and so is any other lowbie around. Of course you can hit him anyway, you just run the risk of dishonor if you initiate it (which is how it should work). Also, if you initiate the attack on a lowbie, you get a block on being able to get the "no dishonor" flag for 15 minutes that resets with each new attack on a lowbie. So if I just randomly take down a 10, it doesn't matter if 30 level 10s attack me 5 minutes later...I accure dishonor for killing any because I previously committed dishonorable actions. Don't attack lowbies, no problems. AoE spells/effects should be exempted from that rule (but not going the other direction...i.e. - you standing next to a valid opponent that I'm fighting will not trip my flag, but you using an AoE that catches me does).


Not bad ideas, actually. You're right that some kind of solution better than the non-solution should be workable. The ability to attack a lowbie, but accrue dishonour for doing so, would take away my concerns for those rare occasions when they are a threat.

[Jadal]

All excellant points, which leads me to reiterate what SilverTalon is saying. We came up with some very good ideas in one thread. Why cant they do the same when its their job?

I hope the proposed system is a "show" as Zanik suggested. Maybe by tipping a few cards they were looking for customer feedback. If that is the case they should have asked.

All in all it is still the best MMO out there I just would hate to see it take a wrong turn.

[Spinning Hat]

Planetside was the best MMO out there for a while too, and look what's happened... :o

[Jadal]

Edit: The best MMORPG :P

At the risk of being stoned..........PS sucked!!!!

[Spinning Hat]

I'll tell you what: PS does suck now, and has for a while. During the Beta, and shortly after release, before the expansion, and pushing all the new stuff they did to cover up the playbalancing and performance issues, it was fun, and while I only got to level 14 or so, I still had fun. I tried it again a while ago, just to check it out, and the framerate was so bad, I was getting headaches. worst $13 I ever spent.

Now with WoW, the framerate isn't as important, but it's still very smooth for me, and the experience is great. I haven't been playing the relese long enough to really have any issues with what you guys are talking about, but the concept of the Honor dishonor system is a good one, and if they were to see this forum, and incorporate some of these ideas, I'm sure it'd be just fine.

[Stang]

Hey now don't go knockin PS it was an awesome game. Best MMO out there by far from what I've seen. Yes it went down hill but with friends to play with you never had a dull moment especially in the vehicles :lol. I'd go play it again down the road. You just weren't loved in PS Jadal :p.

[Jadal]

I'm not sure I know your definition of love Stang. If by love, you mean a bullet between the eyes from unseen enemies, then I can assure you I was loved by the masses.

:)

[Stang]

:lol: