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SilverTalon
05-02-2007, 07:32 AM
Interesting move there by the Panthers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2855468

So are they basically going with "Steve Smith is our offense and we'll suck this year if anyone figures out a way to shut him down"?

Sure, the birds cut a LB, but they've got 2 former Pro-Bowlers at the position already and another five guys behind that...wonder what the logic behind throwing a couple rookies to the wolves is (since Detriot has proven that's not really a great idea).

Thoughts from the Karolinas about Keyshawn's Kutting?

Stoke
05-02-2007, 07:50 AM
Krazy....

Sometimes I wonder what really goes on over in those offices across the street.....


First...the Official Charlotte Observer Article:

Working as a draft analyst for ESPN on Saturday, Keyshawn Johnson repeatedly referred to rookie receiver Dwayne Jarrett as "much like me." It turns out Johnson was missing one word.
The Carolina Panthers apparently thought Jarrett was "too" much like Johnson. That was the logic behind Tuesday's release of Johnson, who was brought in amid major hype a little more than a year ago.
Despite a productive season in which he caught 70 passes for 815 yards and four touchdowns, the Panthers parted ways with Johnson, who will turn 35 this summer, because they wanted to get younger at receiver.
There had been rumblings in recent weeks that the Panthers would target a receiver early in the draft and that Johnson's future with the team could be in jeopardy.
Although Johnson reacted glowingly on television when the Panthers used a second-round pick on Jarrett (who like Johnson attended Southern California), that pick triggered Johnson's ouster.
Much like Johnson, Jarrett is a big (6-foot-4 and 220 pounds) physical receiver who should fare well in the possession game and use his size as a blocker in the running game. He's also a lot younger, and Jarrett is likely to be an instant starter opposite Pro Bowler Steve Smith.
The Panthers have plenty of depth behind Smith and Jarrett with Drew Carter, Keary Colbert and Taye Biddle returning and the addition of fourth-round pick Ryne Robinson.
"Keyshawn was everything we thought he would be when we brought him in," general manager Marty Hurney said.
"He gave us high production last year. But, after being fortunate enough to get Dwayne Jarrett and Ryne Robinson in the draft and having the other younger guys ... we wanted to be able to get these guys some reps."
Johnson did not return phone messages, but he told the St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times the Panthers told him they wanted to get younger at receiver and that he hopes to catch on with another team.
Contrary to widespread reports, the Panthers did not pay Johnson a $3 million bonus April 1. They did pay him $1 million April 1, but that money was deferred from his initial $3 million signing bonus and had to be paid under any circumstances.
The Panthers will avoid a $1 million reporting bonus that would have been due if he came to training camp.
He will be designated as a June 1 cut, allowing the Panthers to spread his cap hit over two seasons. Had he played this season, he would have cost $3.25 million against the cap. Instead, he will count $1.25 million this year and $2.5 million in 2008.


Second... some "Behind The Scenes" info..
(from about the only reporter type person in town still trusted by the Kittys. We get usually get better info from the other nearby papers)

Although the receiver, who was followed by controversy in his previous stops, seemed to be a model citizen in his one season with the Panthers, there were some-behind the scenes issues.
Some very important people in the organization weren't happy when Johnson failed to stand up and take blame away from quarterback Jake Delhomme after some critical passes intended for Johnson were intercepted. At least one very important person in the organization urged Johnson to do that and he didn't.
Johnson also didn't endear himself to some key people by questioning some coaching moves. The Panthers are on the hook for $3.75 million in salary cap space because of remaining signing bonus prorations. They may designate Johnson as a June 1 cut and spread the cap hit over two years.
The decision to part ways with Johnson actually was made at least several weeks ago. When a rumor was circulating about this move last week, Panthers general manager Marty Hurney told The Observer that information was "not accurate.''
Apparently, the Panthers wanted to make sure their bases were covered before officially making the move, and the clincher came when they drafted USC's Dwayne Jarrett in the second round Saturday.


This news takes a backseat in the local Sports World today because we got Tiger and Michael Jordan paired up together in the Pro-Am before this weekends golf tourney here in town.

SilverTalon
05-02-2007, 08:16 AM
So basically because he wouldn't stand up and take the blame for Delhomme sucking (I saw some of those passes...more often than not he simply shouldn't have thrown the ball in the first place), he gets canned?

So to use that logic in ATF...we should kick Gryph for all of Stoke's screwups? :)

Stoke
05-02-2007, 08:37 AM
Wasn't all of the passes... cause God knows there were a bunch.... A couple were singled out in various reports:


Oct. 22, 2006: A pass intended for Johnson in the end zone is intercepted. The Panthers lose to the Bengals. Jake Delhomme accepts blame. Johnson does not. Oct. 29, 2006: A wide-open Johnson drops a sure touchdown pass in a nationally televised home loss to Dallas.

This is the one that seems to get mentioned the most (as it did again in todays paper):

Carolina played Philadelphia in a Monday night game Dec. 4. The Eagles were on their way out and the Panthers were on their way up and the touchdown the Panthers were about to score would prove it.
Down 27-24 with little more than a half-minute to play, Carolina had the ball on the Philadelphia 7. Keyshawn Johnson ran one of his favorite routes, a fade to the right corner. But cornerback Lito Sheppard got in his way and Johnson cut his route short.
Jake Delhomme's pass went about where it was supposed to, but Johnson did not. Sheppard picked off the pass with 28 seconds remaining to preserve the three-point victory.
The loss was huge, dropping Carolina to 6-6. Delhomme took responsibility for the interception. A quarterback is supposed to lead, and accepting rather than deflecting blame is what leaders do. This is one reason Jake's teammates support him.
Some teammates, as well as the gentlemen who employ them, waited for Johnson to acknowledge his role. Although the season was his first with Carolina, he is 34 and a veteran of 11 seasons, a media star who owns a Super Bowl ring. His words count.
But he would not say the fault was his, not after the game or in the following days. To Johnson, the fault was not his, so why pretend? Rather than share the criticism from the media and fans, Keyshawn let Delhomme absorb all of it.



But, if this is what its based on, about 4/5 of all receivers in the NFL better dust off the resumes... AND....if its all about dropped passes, the Kittys would have run Muhsin outta town LOOOOOOONG before the Bears lured him away.

SilverTalon
05-02-2007, 09:16 AM
I think that also takes away from the fact that Lito Sheppard knew exactly what was going to happen and made sure he was in that position at the snap of the ball. Look at the replay of that pass and it was clear that he was not simply in the right place when the ball was thrown, he was there because he knew that was where the ball would be.

In this case, it IS the job of the QB to realize that the defense knows what is coming and check down to another receiver or eat it given that situation in the game. Better a sack that puts you at the 9 or 10 in a three point game than a pick.

I have to side with Mr. Johnson on this one...you can't expect your WRs to cover for obvious QB errors. If the QB throws a pass to exactly where a Pro Bowl-caliber defender believes it will be based on film study...yes, a pick will result 9 times out of 10. And that 10th time will be an incompletion because the DB couldn't believe the QB was that stupid to throw to a route he was clearly sitting on.

Delhomme took the blame because the primary fault was his. If I hit Stoke's car on the road and it goes crashing into Banne's house as a result, Stoke is not actually at fault here is he? Yes, it was his car that went through Banne's house, but it wouldn't have happened had I not hit him in the first place. Same deal here...Jake doesn't throw the pass he shouldn't have thrown and Keyshawn doesn't have to try and break up a play (that he probably thought no NFL QB would be dumb enough to throw...)

Stoke
05-02-2007, 09:25 AM
Another report in a local paper:

Hurney (GM) also denied a report in a Web site blog that the move was in any way the result of Johnson failing to deflect blame from quarterback Jake Delhomme following some key interceptions last season. Delhomme threw two costly picks in the final seconds in defeats at Cincinnati and Philadelphia.

Banne
05-02-2007, 10:31 AM
*cough* pick him up bears. *cough* We have enough team killers that do their own little part, so why not bring in a big one. However, it does seem like Meshawn has turned back into Keyshawn as of late. He even just seems more relaxed. Only problem with my bears picking him up, would be we already have Moose Muhammed. Moose and Key are two VERY similar players physically (big, good hands, not blazing speed). I dont know if he would be the solution to our passing woes, especially with the "talent" we have at QB (I say play Chris Leak!). But ohh well.

To tell you the truth, I knew that the Panters would cut Keyshawn after I looked at their draft picks. I just didnt think it would be now.

And on a side note, im going to be watching the Atlanta Falcons closely this year, as one of my friends, Laurent Robinson WR ILSTU was chosen in the third round of the NFL draft. He's already been down there and wined and dined by the organization and is excited to start camp. Just a cool side not. I wont be rooting for the falcons, but I will be rooting for LRob.

Stoke
05-02-2007, 10:56 AM
Kinda gotta go with what this guy posted on the Panthers forum on the Observers website.....

Maybe things weren't as kosher in the locker room as we thought. Who knows? Exactly, we DON'T know.. so we have to stand by our management's decision. They know something we don't otherwise the move wouldn't have been made. It's just depressing how I come into this forum to read uplifting, encouraging panther talk and instead its always "FIRE FOX, FIRE HURNEY, CUT JAKE, CUT MORGAN." This is a good team, folks, w/ good players and good people. We'll be just fine this year. Relax.

SilverTalon
05-02-2007, 11:31 AM
I think the point most of the people on the forums there are making is that the Panthers aren't a good team.

Being unable to make it into the NFC playoffs where at one point it looked like a team with a losing record might pull it off reinforces that point fairly well.

Banne
05-02-2007, 11:40 AM
Looking at alot of the scheduling this year for the NFC, its going to be a very similar year, with I think the Pats going all the way.

Whats going on in Eagle-Nation with the possible McNabb replacement now in town? There is another player I want in Chicago, cut McNabb, please! PLEASE!

Stoke
05-02-2007, 11:45 AM
Most of the folks here (panthers forum) that post regularly - and I assume its the same with every team - is that if you dont go 16-0 and win the Superbowl by 3 or more TD's then the year was a failure, the team sucks, the coaches should be fired, half the team released, the QB marooned out on a desert island somewhere, the concession workers lined up and shot, the groundskeepers fed to the lions and the stadium bulldozed.

I am a Panthers fan. I cheer when they win and I curse at them when they lose. I in no way think I have the least little hint of a clue about how or why they make the decisions they make. They get paid to do that, not me.

For some reason, there seems to be a whole lot of unemployeed GM's posting on those forums day in and day out about what decisions should or should not have been made.

Kinda like all the unemployeed game developers that post in the Blizzard forums about how a game should be done...

Banne
05-02-2007, 11:58 AM
For some reason, there seems to be a whole lot of unemployeed GM's posting on those forums day in and day out about what decisions should or should not have been made.

Kinda like all the unemployeed game developers that post in the Blizzard forums about how a game should be done...

Well said. Even when the bears were in the Bowl, people were still going nutso over grossman. Fact of the matter was, sure if we had a better QB we could won, sure if others things went right, we could have won. But we didnt. Tough crap. I was just happy to see my team on the world wide stage in the superbowl. Sure I was disappointed when we lost, but still.

Fans are fans are fans. They will throw parades for winners, and parade down the streets in lynch mobs for losers. All I can say, and I think its safe to say considering this conversation has had three of the last four NFC Champs, 03-Panters 04-Iggles 05-Seaducks 06-Burrs, (if you include that couple from ye olde northwest, then 4-4), THAT I am glad. I am glad....I am not a Detroit Lions Fan.

That is all.

Stoke
05-02-2007, 11:59 AM
I am glad....I am not a Detroit Lions Fan.



Quoted for the Mo'Fo' TRUTH!

SilverTalon
05-02-2007, 12:14 PM
I don't keep up much with the general Eagle-nation, but the general feeling among most people was the team last year was actually pretty good. The biggest problems were really injury related and the defense which was mainly the injuries to the D-Line making them bad at the run and the safeties (in particular Michael Lewis, who is no longer an Eagle) making some bone-head moves.

Something like 20 of 22 of the '06 starters were supposed to be back for the '07 season and they replaced one of those two with their big free-agent acquistion, so they really didn't feel like they HAD to draft anyone in particular with their picks. Since they had no immediate needs, they went with the best player on the board. That surprised some people, but with how vital the QB is to a team and how injury-prone McNabb can be by league standards (even if some are freak accidents)...never a bad idea to have a good stable.

While he might ride the pine for a few years, it'll probably be the same deal as the Chargers had with Phillip Rivers. He rode the pine for a long time, but he turned out to be a decent enough QB (better than anything the Bears have at any rate).

McNabb has a contract through 2012 and the owner said when that contract was inked that he was very happy that McNabb would play his career out as an Eagle so I don't think McNabb is particularly worried by Kolb. Feely's got to 2010 to get worried, but Holcomb is probably going "Aw shit..."

The Eagles as a franchise tend to be more long-thinking than their fans. They figure a solid team of good players all-around is better than an offense that can be summarized as "Steve Smith", even if that fellow is individually better than most anyone on their roster. Superstars do not a good TEAM make, and Philly's staff seems to understand that better than most. Hence why so many players have been Pro Bowlers with the Eagles and suckass everywhere else.

A few years ago, people said the staff were crazy for ditching Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent for (at the time) 2nd year players Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown. Now, it appears Lito Sheppard was so good he got a wide receiver fired...meanwhile neither of those other gentlemen were in the league in even '04 as I recall. While you always have hot-head fans, I think Reid probably has more leeway with his desicions than any coach in Philly sports history. Being one of the consistently best franchises in the league (one bad year since 2000) will do that I suppose.

Stoke
05-02-2007, 12:38 PM
There was pretty much a riot going on here the other day because the Panthers didnt waste a draft pick on Chris Leak. "Oh, but he's from Charlotte and played for the mighty Independence H.S. and won a national championship we HAVE to take him at any cost.....why the hell did we draft a LB...GET CHRIS LEAK NOW... what its round 7 and he's still out there?!?!? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE!!! DRAFT HIM NOW!!!!!!....we didnt draft Chris Leak and he signed with the bears...thats it I'm cancelling my PSL's..."

For those that may be wondering about the term "Mighty Independence HS", they are currently on a 108 game winning streak and have won 7 straight NC 4A championships.

Stoke
05-08-2007, 01:18 PM
Hmmm.... its a little too early in the year for this curse of death to already be placed out there........

Don Banks of Sports Illustrated says:
• I know Carolina let me down last season, but with 10 weeks or so until training camps start to open, I find myself leaning once again toward the Panthers as my NFC Super Bowl pick. I loved their draft -- Jon Beason, Dwayne Jarrett, Ryan Kalil and Charles Johnson in the first three rounds -- and the additions of offensive coordinator Jeff Davidson and backup quarterback David Carr are plusses too.

Verra
05-08-2007, 03:21 PM
WHAT!?!??!?!?!? another thread about football. It's like the 50th thread in the past year about football. To my knowledge it's the off season for football.

Banne
05-08-2007, 03:46 PM
lol Verra, yes, we are addicted. The draft was a lil bit ago, thats why this all came up.

My predicitons for this year: The Bears will either repeat as NFC Champs, or will got 7-9 COMPLETELY depending on how Rex plays. Thats it. The other thing is if Lance Briggs plays or not. If he doesnt, no chance in hell.
But if its not the bears, my pick is....

The carolina panters...

It hurts to say. I think they will meet the 'Aints in the NFC Championship game if we dont get there.

AFC: Duh. Patriots.

Stoke
05-08-2007, 04:01 PM
We're petitioning Gryphon to make a football section but it hasnt happened yet.... :-)